How to choose a digital agency that actually grows your business

Haydn Woods-Williams

00:05

Hello and welcome to the Marketers of the Universe podcast. My name is Hayden Woods-Williams. I'm a digital marketing team lead here at Brew Digital. And I'm here today to talk about agencies and how you can make sure your business chooses the right agency for you for long-term success. I'm here today with our managing director, Gareth Llewellyn and our head of digital marketing services, Rich Harper, discuss everything from whether a full service agency or a specialist agency is better suited to you, all the way through to whether you should buy that product from the Snake Oil Salesman Online. For now though, let's get on with the podcast. Just to warm everyone up, I'm going to start just to allow Gareth and Rich to intro themselves very quickly. Yeah, over to you Gareth first.

Gareth Llewellyn

00:53

Gareth Thank you, Haydn. So I've been the manager director at Brew Digital for approaching six years now. But prior to that, I've been with the Adaptivist group, our parent company for over 15 years, doing a whole bunch of different roles in different areas.

Haydn Woods-Williams

01:09

Nice.

Gareth Llewellyn

01:10

Nice.

Haydn Woods-Williams

01:11

So you've been here a long time. I have.

Gareth Llewellyn

01:13

Yeah. But I've also got lots of other agency experience from earlier in my career as well. So nice. And a whole load of different things. Thank you, Gareth. And Rich.

Rich Harper

01:22

I'm Rich, head of digital marketing at Brew. I've been with Bru now for three and a half years, just over. I've been in agencies though for coming up to about 15, 20 years now. Prior to joining Bru, I had my own boutique digital agency as well. So hopefully I've got plenty of knowledge on how to choose the right agency.

Haydn Woods-Williams

01:45

Nice. For me, you know, I've actually not been agency side for that long. I think I've been at maybe four years, an adaptivist for five and a half years. So lots of experience here as well. I've also spent a lot of my time in-house, so I have that kind of experience of understanding what companies are looking for when it comes to finding an agency. So my first question, really to try and kick us off with a little bit of fuzz is, one of the things that I've kind of seen come up multiple times when it comes to talking to customers and clients and kind of secondary research is one of the biggest issues that comes with trying to choose an agency is either A, they don't know what to look for. There's so many different options, great for agency, full service agency, kind of LinkedIn specialist agency. And the other thing is that they've been burnt before. How, and I'm going to start with you, Gareth, how can a company looking to start an agency relationship or a new agency relationship, make sure they're not going to start with, you know, a company that's going to ultimately be crap for their growth?

Gareth Llewellyn

03:09

So I think there's really two things that I would focus on if I was looking for a new agency. Firstly, you want to find an agency that you can have a long-term partnership relationship with. You want them to be working with you to achieve the best thing for your business. So having that kind of relationship, that rapport, I think is super, super important. But secondly, I think it's about choosing an agency that complements and augments the skills that you have. So if you're already doing maybe some of your marketing or some of your digital work in-house. Don't find an agency that can do that same stuff because you've already got people that can do that. Find an agency that can really augment that skill set and enable you to do more than you can with your existing in-house team. How do you go about knowing that information about your own business? Well, I think that's where you really do need to lean on your team. understand from them where they feel their strengths are, but also where they can recognize that where they don't have the strengths. So where you seek extra skills. So for example, paid media was a topic you know very well. It's very easy for people to have a superficial knowledge and experience with paid media, but at the same time, people need to be honest if actually that's an area where we need more in-depth experience. We need an agency that can offer us real in-depth research and offer us more insights that we simply don't have the skills or experience to do in-house maybe.

Haydn Woods-Williams

04:46

I think Rich you're going to have a unique insight on this as well having kind of run the Ode agency and had customers and had to analyze what expertise to have in your own team. What are your thoughts on that?

Rich Harper

05:01

It's an interesting one because there's that debate between whether or not you should specialize in something as a business or should you provide multiple services like a full service agency under one roof. I think both have their merits. You know if you go to a specialist agency that you are hopefully getting that very specialized expertise. You mentioned, you know, LinkedIn ads. I know an agency that are LinkedIn ad specialists. That is what they do. That is all they do. And they get great results. However, from a client perspective, from a business perspective, are you then going to go and work with the LinkedIn ad agency to run your LinkedIn ads? What if you then need organic SEO and you don't have that skill set in-house, you need to go out and find another agency that can do that. If you then want to run Google, because this agency are just a LinkedIn ads agency, and you will now want to run Google search campaigns, do you then have to find another agency to run that? All of a sudden you're balancing and managing multiple agencies. Yes, you've got lots of specialists and hopefully they're all going to get your results. But the fact that you're balancing multiple agency means that you're going to have three or four different retainers or pricing models or things that you're going to have to manage and pay for, which is going to potentially increase your budgets. And two, you're managing multiple things. There's a risk there that it could become siloed. So you've got all of this activity completely siloed from one another. Those agencies will not generally talk to each other. I think often as well, but people, especially in those specialist cases, they do tend to work quite isolated. But on the flip side, the full service agency, you have one solution and hopefully that full service agency has the right expertise in-house to cover your needs. And if you're going to be looking for kind of multiple services, then the full service model could work for you. The downside or the flip side to a full service is that perhaps they come across that they are that jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none type of scenario. So it's getting that balance right.

Gareth Llewellyn

07:21

I think there's a big advantage when going with a full service agency that they're able to look at your business more holistically.

Rich Harper

07:30

Yeah.

Gareth Llewellyn

07:31

And they can really sort of look across everything that you're doing across your digital marketing and even your offline marketing as well. They can look at the whole picture and help you identify where maybe there's gaps and things like that. And that's the thing that going to a very specialist agency, yes, they can offer that expertise in a very particular area and there'll be times when you need that, but they're not going to be looking holistically and looking at how to help you achieve your overall business objectives across everything you could do with your digital marketing.

Rich Harper

08:03

Yeah, exactly. And I think it comes down to, if you're looking for that type of agency, that full service model, look at the way they position themselves, not necessarily them positioning what services they offer, but how are they talking to you as a business? Do they have expertise in the same industry that you're in? Do they specialize? Perhaps they have the expertise that cover full service, but they specialize in say B2B or the technology space like we do. So therefore you have that alignment. You know that the people they employ are going to know what they're doing. However, from an agency perspective, they also have that kind of insight, that industry knowledge that perhaps a specialist agency, yes, they can be very specific on one channel, but may do it for multiple places and may lack that kind of external environment knowledge.

Haydn Woods-Williams

08:58

You mentioned industry specific experience. Is that something that if you're a business looking for an agency, literally what we're talking about. Do you need that specialist experience?

Rich Harper

09:16

I think it helps. I think certain industries, there will be things that you would hope, or you would go to someone that knows because there may be regulations, there may be regulatory things that they need to be aware of. There may be certain nuances that in your industry, expect an agency to know so you're not having to kind of guide them, tell them everything. I think the one thing is if you're going to work with an agency, having had a brief spell in-house is you want them to do the thinking for you. The reason that you are employing an agency is because you don't have the headspace or the resource internally to do it. So if I write a brief and I hand it off to an agency, I want that agency to really own it, come back to me and tell me exactly what I'm going to, what they're going to deliver, how they're going to deliver it and what results that's going to achieve. So if they know the industry, I feel I would feel more comfortable that, yeah, they get the kind of niche or the nuances that I'm involved in. I don't think that's appropriate for every single industry. But I would be wary if you're an agency and they go, hey, yeah, we work in the tech space, the charity space, the healthcare space, the manufacturing, automotive, because they won't know, it'd be impossible to know everything. From a, this is talking from an agency perspective, when you then start shouting, we do everything and to everyone, it's like you're just shouting into a void. And then I think from a client perspective, if you're looking for an agency, they just don't stand out enough.

Haydn Woods-Williams

10:49

Yeah. I mean, that's a classic example of a problem that, you know, many marketers, junior, senior, people not even in marketing, make all the time, right? They try to do everything and end up doing nothing.

Gareth Llewellyn

11:06

Yeah, I would just counter Rich's point a little bit. I think at the other extreme, when companies go for an agency that is very specialist in their sector or their domain, then you end up essentially having a lack of creative thinking. There are agencies out there that specialize in digital marketing and websites and things just for universities and higher education. And yes, they know that industry really well. They understand exactly what sort of what, uh, all the key things that a university cares about, but the trouble is what they produce ends up looking like every other university website. and you don't get that injection of new ideas and ideas from other industries. And it's good to learn from what other domains and industries do. So that's where I think, yes, it's good to go for an agency that has experience with your industry, but don't think that you need to have one that only works in your industry. look for those options for more creativity and ideas that are going to be new and original for you because that is how you're going to be able to stand out against your competition.

Rich Harper

12:20

We're a B2B agency. I think that can be true of the B2B profession in general as well. The B2B is seen as this boring safe cousin of B2C marketing that B2B can't do anything creative, it can't be imaginative. It's got to be where we're speaking to a corporate, So it needs to be corporate tone. It needs to be professional. And actually, I think some of the best B2B marketing I've seen is the ones that step out of that category and actually challenge it and be a bit more consumer facing. Because, I mean, at the end of the day, B2B marketers are still talking to people.

Haydn Woods-Williams

12:56

I love Hootsuite for this. They, I mean I'm not a social media manager myself, but if you look at Hootsuite socials, they really kind of are a mirror to that life of a social media manager and they understand those pain points. And in their videos, they are really, really effective at communicating that.

Rich Harper

13:21

You also like the giant red bird, don't you?

Haydn Woods-Williams

13:26

I just want like a knockoff Duolingo bird that I can take home. Is it? B2B Duolingo bird. (laughing) It's red, so it's evil. I'm now starting to think about like Sith Lords. This is a moment that I'm just letting get out of hand. Thank you. Bring it back in. That's it, yeah. If Tom was here, he would be telling me off right now. I think we need to be really careful here because what I don't want this to be is a conversation about how great brew are and how terrible all other agencies are. You know, as much as like, I'd love people to see that, that's not how it works. - Well, that is true. Exactly, but one of the things that's kind of coming out is that, you know, you can start a relationship with an amazing agency who's had incredible results and they might not be the right fit for you. How do you go about that discovery of, is this agency right for me?

Gareth Llewellyn

14:23

I think like so many things, whether you're looking for a plumber or an agency, getting recommendations from people you know and trust is really invaluable. Ultimately, when you're first talking to agencies, maybe you've put a brief out, maybe you're just reaching out to agencies and having some initial conversations. I think just having really open conversations with those agencies, see who you develop that natural rapport and relationship with and see how they want to work with you. Are they interested in your business and the problems you're trying to solve? Or are they just trying to get you to sign a contract for a chunk of money and they just want to know, okay, you want a new website, you want new brand. It's like, do they understand you? Are they motivated by helping your business succeed and help you achieve what your objectives are? Um, because ultimately that's what you need them to be doing. You don't want them to just be order takers. You want them to be really helping you achieve your objectives. And the only way you're really going to get that is by having those conversations and building that relationship and thinking, do they get me? Do they get my business and what I'm trying to achieve?

Haydn Woods-Williams

15:35

What's that like from the other side? How do agencies know that the business is right?

Rich Harper

15:39

Sometimes I think it comes down to gut, if I'm completely honest. And I've got experience of having that gut feeling that something or someone, some client is not right. And yet pursued it anyway, because at the end of the day, we need to make money, especially when I was running my own business. It was OK, doesn't feel quite right, but the money's there. You know, we've got salaries to pay, etc. You take it on. What I've learned over the years is often my gut is is right. And those clients end up actually costing you in business because of the difficulties that you have managing them and cost more ways than just the kind of that monetary thing. It's, you know, the detriment to your mental health, you know, the stress of trying to manage a difficult client. And ultimately, if the client is being difficult with you, they're not also getting a great relationship back. And we've been in those situations, you know, time and time again, because you've made a head decision, because, you know, the pressure's on, you need to hit targets and you say yes. But really, I think it comes down to that gut situation. If you think something's not right, just kind of walk away, move on. There's always going to be another client. There'll always be someone else that is a better fit for your organization, for your agency. The same goes for clients. If you don't feel that there's a right fit there, don't pursue it because the price is the cheapest. We've had clients come back to us, and this again, don't want to turn this into a love-in for brew, but we've had clients that have come back where we've pitched for, and six months down the line they've come back and asked us to re-pitch again because they went with the cheapest, they didn't get the results that they were promised, and now they're back to square one. And sometimes, you know, you've just got to be transparent with one another. Can you deliver the results? One thing that we pride ourselves on is we won't get it right every single time. But I'd like to think that we will be honest and upfront about that from the start. And if we get an inbound inquiry where we really don't think that we are going to be able to hit the required growth and help that business move forwards, then we'll say, no, we're not. It's not for us.

Haydn Woods-Williams

18:04

With Brew in particular, we're in quite a unique situation where we are a full service agency, we also have the backing of the adaptivist group, so for anyone who doesn't know, we are owned by an umbrella company, that gives us probably a little bit more, or sorry, less of a risk profile compared to other agencies. Can you give me an example of where being part of something bigger has given access to things that agencies usually wouldn't have access to and how has that ultimately benefited the client?

Gareth Llewellyn

18:45

So if you think about Brood Digital, we're around 50 people. So we're a good size agency in our own right. However, the Adaptivist group overall is over a thousand people. So that is about a thousand other people that we have access to that are experts whole range of different areas. Um, so it gives us access to a huge wealth of experience and knowledge. Um, and so a good example that we're working with right now is one of our clients wanted, wanted to do a whole load of real in-depth analysis of their customer journey to understand the drop-off points in their subscription programs and things like that. Now, as an agency, we can do a level of analysis with that. However, at the Adaptivist Group, they've got an entire team of specializing in analytics where they've got dedicated data scientists. And so we've been able to use that team to leverage the knowledge and experience that they have to offer a whole nother level of sort of in-depth research and analysis to help help the clients. So that's just one example of where there's so much more skill and experience by being part of a bigger organization that we're able to access. So, yeah, it means we don't have to try and do everything ourselves if we don't need to.

Haydn Woods-Williams

20:10

Rich, do you have any examples of other agencies that you love? I'm going to ask them to be to be space if you can, but if you can't, don't worry- who kind of echo similar values to that that we hold at Brew that really impress you, that maybe you take inspiration from. Now, I'm going to just quickly steal that question back from you. One of the things that I heard recently that I wanted to kind of interject before I give you that question is this idea there are no such thing as competitors. Yeah, you should see the face that he's pulling. Oh, we're doing this video, you can see my face. But there are customer alternatives. So what other customer alternatives do you really like if you were looking at Brew from an outside lens? Sorry, looking at choosing an agency with an outside lens.

Rich Harper

21:10

So if I was in-house looking for an agency? Yeah.

Haydn Woods-Williams

21:14

and you're not allowed to say Brit.

Rich Harper

21:16

Okay.

Haydn Woods-Williams

21:17

Or your old agency.

Rich Harper

21:19

Well, no, my old agency would be pointless because they don't exist anymore. That would be bad with Gareth sitting across the table for me if I was running a competitor agency at the same time. Actually,

Haydn Woods-Williams

21:32

I'd really like to recommend this agency called Rich Harper's Business.

Rich Harper

21:36

Yeah. I do, I keep an eye on the agency landscape. There's lots of agencies, there's lots of, you know, big and small. I think at the moment what you're seeing in the industry is a bit of a shake up. You know, you've got the huge powerhouses, you know, your Havases and your WPPs and stuff like that. They're going through huge reshuffles. And, you know, I think perhaps the. Monopoly of of those businesses is potentially going to slow down. And you will see more independent, more flexible type agencies kind of winning more and more work. I think businesses are looking quite short-sighted. So the days of working with an agency for, you know, five years plus are starting to disappear, which makes it tough for us from an agency perspective, because if we can't hold on to clients, it means we're consistently looking for new ones. But rather than tying people into long-term contracts, I think the results will speak for themselves. So if you're able to deliver results and your clients are happy with you, there's no reason for them to look beyond what they already have. Equally, there's no reason for us to make sure they're tied into a long contract because the work will speak volumes. I quite like Hallam as an agency, really enjoy some of the work that they're doing. and their look and feel, they're very slick, they're very transparent. You'll see them generally kind of score and rank quite highly in any sort of comparisons and stuff like that. I'd be quite biased, it used to be a friend's agency, he exited, but we also really like a digital agency called RawNet.

Haydn Woods-Williams

23:30

Okay.

Rich Harper

23:33

Again, maybe a bit biased because a friend used to own them. But I just have those shared values with what they're doing. They're very clear and concise in what they're doing. They kind of deliver what they promise from a brand perspective, very consistent. It's great look and feel. I do use them quite a bit to compare, steal ideas, perhaps. I don't think it's wrong. I think it's stealing, it's taking inspiration. Yeah, take any inspiration. Um, but I think that's the biggest compliment you can pay anyone. If you look at what they're doing and you think it is good and you take that and put your own spin on it. And I think going back to an earlier question, when we talked about, um, specialism in industries and B2B becoming a bit samey again from an agency perspective and from a business perspective, go and see what your competitors are doing. Well, don't just carbon copy it because you will look the same. and then therefore there is no differentiation. But take those ideas, elevate them, add your own creative spin to it, and then you become a little bit more unique.

Haydn Woods-Williams

24:42

Customer alternatives.

Rich Harper

24:44

Customer alternatives. - Not competitors. Not competitors.

Haydn Woods-Williams

24:46

(laughing) Is that 180 to being customer-centric? Okay. Anyone you wanna add, Gareth?

Gareth Llewellyn

24:52

Yeah, so an agency that's actually very local to me that I like a lot is Three Sided Cube, and they have a very clear brand value their slogan is tech for good. And when it comes and it comes back to the discussion about choosing the right agency and from the agency, choosing the right client as well. So if they get a project come their way that doesn't fit their resource of tech for good. So they do loads of work with sort of charity sector, environment sector, things like that. Then they will turn that away and they'll sort of pass that on to what, what, uh, to another agency because they're super clear on what their focus is. and they know they're going to do the best value, or give the best value for clients that fit in with what they're trying to achieve. So I think, I just think they're a really nice example of the agency really being clear as to sort of picking the right clients for them and knowing when to say no to a project.

Haydn Woods-Williams

25:54

Completely, completely. And I think from the perspective of the listener, try to make sure you're not just looking at one agency. Our business development manager will kill me for saying this, but having alternatives will make sure that you choose the right one that's going to help you. Whereas if you look at one, it's like if you're buying a house and you only look at one house, or you buy a car and you only look at one car, you don't have any benchmark or comparison to kind of put that on.

Gareth Llewellyn

26:28

Absolutely.

Haydn Woods-Williams

26:30

One of the things that I think is impossible for any B2B business focused podcast to get through at the moment is not having a podcast where AI is discussed at some point. Now, I've seen data thrown around that AI is going to replace agencies. I remember reading a report that said, I think it was that 75% of agencies think that their businesses are going to grow, but 62% of in-house businesses think that AI is going to reduce the reliance on agency. So there's clearly a disconnect there. What I'd really like to understand is what is changing, what are customers asking for now, what can businesses ask for now that maybe they couldn't in the past and what should those businesses, our listeners looking for an agency, what should they be looking for? Gareth?

Gareth Llewellyn

27:39

Well, if I focus on AI to begin with a little bit, because obviously it is something we're being asked about on a sort of daily basis at the moment. And the big challenge is it's a constantly changing landscape. There's new tools coming out every week, every day. So lots of our clients want to know how can they be using the tools in the right way? Should they be using them? Which tools to use, how to use them? So I think certainly from the client side, there's a lot of almost like fear that things are moving fast, but they don't know what to do. And I think in many ways that expands to actually all of digital marketing, that they know they need to be doing stuff. There's so much stuff going on, whether it's through social media or paid media and stuff like that. And that's where they need help. They want help and expertise from an agency to make sure they're doing the right thing and that they're not being left behind.

Haydn Woods-Williams

28:37

Nice. Thank you.

Rich Harper

28:40

I think just be careful of over promises. I think there's lots of people out there at the moment promising that they, you They have the secret recipe to making your business a success. And by using AI, they can do it at a fraction of the cost. It hasn't been around long enough for people to fully understand and maximize it. We are seeing the potential of it. And I think agencies are, if I'm completely transparent, are working their way around how AI can support and help improve efficiencies and stuff like that. Um, I wouldn't say anyone had the answer. Um, and I don't think the platforms themselves even know exactly where they want to be yet. Um, you know, from a digital marketing perspective, there are multiple choices for people. So you think from a search perspective, Google have dominated for the last. Decade or more now there's lots of alternatives, but there's no one standout alternative that's kind of paving the way for everyone else to kind of copy. So whilst they're still trying to work things out, how can you have an expert claim that they know exactly what's going on? From a client perspective, if you're looking at an agency, again, go with that gut feeling. If they're telling you something that sounds a little bit too good to be true, then perhaps it is. Whereas if an agency is being transparent with of view that, hey, yeah, we use AI and this is how we use it. I would be more inclined to think about those types of agencies than that AI guru that's come out of nowhere in the last 12 months and has probably watched a couple of YouTube videos.

Haydn Woods-Williams

30:28

Which I guess is a danger of the business landscape we're seeing at the moment where human brands- people, I guess you could also call them- are being pushed by LinkedIn as a perfect example. So thought leader ads, influencer campaigns, all these things put humans at the center. How do you know that this person is reliable, but is a face of an agency beyond this person is an AI snake oil salesman?

Gareth Llewellyn

31:04

How do you know that it's even a human and not AI generated?

Haydn Woods-Williams

31:07

That's terrifying. I was literally watching a video this morning. I think it was a Chinese TikToker whose like face filter was flicking in and out and it was a completely different person. And that is genuinely terrifying. And I feel like that is completely mirrored in people searching for an agency. And what you said there is massive, Rich. Like being upfront about it and having your agency being upfront about it has to be something that you look for. What are some red flags that you can see when talking to an agency?

Rich Harper

31:44

Do your research. For me, a good agency is going to have some sort of footprint online. If they are publishing content, if they are talking at events, if they have a good catalogue of clients, there will be a footprint of them online that you can at least start to work out, okay, yeah, they've been around for five years or 10 years or they've just started, but the person that started them has got a history in previous agencies or has come from an in-house and set up an agency. Generally speaking, the good people will leave a footprint of where they've been. And if you do your research, you can find out, does that experience match of what they're selling me up front? I think you'll find the ones, you know, those influencers, you can't, you'll see the ad, they may have an Instagram profile or a LinkedIn profile, but beyond that, you'll find very little information about them circulating. For me, that would be an instant red flag. And I think just treat agencies the same as any purchase that you would in your, you know, your real lives, in your consumer lives. You wouldn't go, or I'd hope to think, you wouldn't go and just purchase something at a whim off of some guy that you saw in the pub on a Friday night.

Haydn Woods-Williams

33:15

Maybe you've got 12 dogs, just keep bumping into people at pubs.

Rich Harper

33:21

Maybe sometimes there is that impulse buy, but generally speaking, people don't tend to buy rationally. be even if you think that it's an impulse, there will be some sort of thought process that's got you to that point. You don't just go out and buy a new car. There will be, you don't wake up in the morning, there will be some sort of process up until that point. And even if you think it's still a, it's an irrational choice. I woke up and decided to go buy the car this morning. You haven't. There've been cues, there's been triggers along the way that have helped you rationalize that impulse decision. Um, and I think that will be happening with agencies. You'll see stuff. You don't just see the first person as you scroll in Instagram, go, I promised to get you 10,000 leads a day. Oh, well that guy can definitely do that. I'll give him all my money. Um,

Haydn Woods-Williams

34:17

but he said he can have my money back. Yeah.

Rich Harper

34:19

Give you, yeah. It'd be impossible to get your money back. There's lots of these people springing up. Um, they are, you know, the chances, you know, and ultimately they will, they will pick people off.

Gareth Llewellyn

34:34

Um, yeah. Yeah. It comes down to what we used to call in the old days, doing your due diligence. And I think the problem is sort of, we live in an environment where everything's moving so quickly at the moment. It often feels like, Oh, I've seen an influence to say that I should go hire them or whatever. You still need to do your due diligence and exactly as Rich is saying, that is sort of saying, okay, what, what is their footprint? How long have they been around? Do they have a portfolio of clients? Ask them for some references. Like if they're not someone that, you know, sort of directly speak to some of their existing clients. Um, any good agency will have clients that will be happy to talk to you, talk about the relationship they have. Um, and we see it all the time when we're working with larger organizations. They put a lot of effort into making sure we're legit, that we're, we've been around for a while and that we're going to be around for the foreseeable future. Even some boring stuff like checking on companies house. Does this company exist? Do they have published accounts? How long does that go back? These are things that, yeah, it's a bit boring, a bit old school, but actually it's really effective because you can see is this company I'm talking to that I'm thinking about giving money to, are they profitable or are they in trouble etc.

Rich Harper

36:00

Exactly what you said, some of these influencers don't even, they're not even registered in the UK, they've got like, they're licensed in like Malta or something like that. Instantly you know why you're not in the UK, you're not here, it's because it's all, you know, I'm not saying it's a scam but it's a

Haydn Woods-Williams

36:18

It's a scam, it's a brilliant scam. Cool, very quickly, bang, we're gonna go bang, bang, bang, bang, question, okay? No pressure. Okay. I feel like I just put loads of pressure on you. You put loads of pressure on. This is a real power switch because this is my boss and my boss's boss. (laughing) I'm just making the most of this. Two things our listeners can take away and have front of mind when they're thinking about their next agency relationship. And if you take more than 15 seconds, I'm gonna cut you off. So think about this sharp. About 15 seconds per point. Gareth.

Gareth Llewellyn

36:56

Talk to people you know, try and get a recommendation, like try and get a referral from someone. And second point, take your time talking to the agencies, build a relationship and a rapport with them so you get to know them. Are they people you want to spend time with?

Haydn Woods-Williams

37:14

Rich. Same question. Exactly the same question.

Rich Harper

37:19

Gareth stole my point. I was gonna say build a relationship. I think it's important with all of the technology to establish that human to human connection. Are they the right fit for you? If they're not, don't just be driven by price, walk away.

Haydn Woods-Williams

37:35

Ooh, I was this close to buzzing you there. (laughing) I forgot to count at the start though, so it may not have been 15 seconds. Point two?

Rich Harper

37:46

I don't have a point to. Excellent.

Haydn Woods-Williams

37:49

Excellent. That is all we have time for today. Thank you so much for listening. We hope you found some useful snippets and are able to think a lot more diligently when you're choosing your next agency. We love that you've made it this far through the listen. We love making this content and would love it if you could recommend the show to a friend Or as Tom has been saying recently, if you didn't like it, recommend it to an enemy. That way, no one is disappointed. Thank you to the Brood Digital team for their research and input into today's session. And make sure to check out our past episodes, subscribe on whatever platform you use to listen to your podcasts, and we'll see you on the next one. I'm Hayden, and these are the marketers of the universe. [ Music ]